But Chewymom treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.
So, that’s not a totally accurate quotation of Luke 2:19, but it’s a pretty accurate description of me.
Chewydad and I have spent the past approximately 12 months feeling like we are no longer a good fit in the Christian denomination (PCA) we have been part of for the past 18 years. That has been a difficult thing to admit to ourselves, and even more difficult for many of our friends to understand.
And yes, the main issue is women.
I have dear friends on both sides of the issue of women in ministry, and although this is not the post where I’ll address the arguments, I would point you to my friend Molly because 1-she is far more eloquent than I am, and 2-she has been going through a very similar change-of-heart right along with me. I will say that Chewydad and I are not throwing out Scripture, or even certain passages. And there are compelling arguments on both sides, in spite of the fact that I never heard the “pro-women” arguments until recently. Maybe because I was only listening to one side of the issue and refusing to fully educate myself.
Some people call that sticking your head in the sand.
Recently our oldest son was honored as a high-school graduate at our former church. We were really thankful that he was even included because we have not been attending there as a family in the past year, even though we are still considered members and Brig is still active in the youth group. We all went to the service, and they called each graduate forward and then asked their parents to stand. Except that although they called out Brig’s name to come forward, Chewydad and I were omitted. It was a bit awkward. We were unsure of whether it was an ironic oversight, or whether it was intentional because we are no longer active there.
I puzzled over the situation, tried to look at it from both sides, and shared the situation with two of my closest friends to try to gain perspective, but I couldn’t make sense of the reasons behind it. It felt personal. It felt embarrassing. It felt like a slap on the wrist–not the first one we have received from an elder at our former church, although the first public one. I continued to ponder this in my heart.
Several days later, as I was discussing this with Chewydad, he said, “Oh, two people came up to me and apologized, and one said it was just an oversight and the other didn’t even realize that we were present. Didn’t you know?”
Why no, I did not know. And here’s why. The men in the situation chose to talk only to my husband. And see, people, this is the dynamic in patriarchal churches that makes me uncomfortable. Why could those men not have said the same thing to me? Because my husband is supposed to be my head, and therefore I don’t merit the respect of an apology? Because they assumed he’d tell me? I’m not sure. But, just like Mary, I ponder things in my heart. It’s what women do. I try to figure out the reasons behind actions. I mull things over. And I spent three unnecessary days mulling over this “offense” only to be told that it was truly just an oversight. And not even by the people doing the overseeeing.
Our former church is a respectful one. In a denomination that includes the likes of the Bayly Brothers, this church is one that values women. And yet, when we really get to the heart of things, there is some weird dynamic that exists, I believe as a direct result of the theology of women. Women are different. They have separate roles. They exist in their own little group. They have WIC and childrens’ ministries to keep themselves occupied. Therefore, the men never have to interact with the women in a professional and respectful relationship. When a problem comes up or something needs to be addressed, it is done man-to-man. It leads to many unhealthy situations. For example, when a female Bible-scholar shares her knowledge for the edification of others in Sunday school, it is met with an awkwardness…and then the teacher moves on. When women begin to grow by leaps and bounds because they are being well-taught in a womens’ Bible study, rather than having the freedom to ask the gifted female teacher to teach a co-ed class, the teacher is removed from her position. When a woman is in trouble in her marriage, the man is counseled. The woman is left to flounder around and figure out what to do on her own.
These are all unhealthy situations, and every one of them is one I have witnessed within my denomination, within some of the better churches. And I believe that every one of them is the result of a theology of women with which I now disagree.
And to wrap up this post and tie it with a nice bow, that’s what I have been pondering my heart.
May 20th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
I’m not PCA, but I have friends and family who are. There are many great things about that denomination, but this is one of the reasons I would be very hesitant to join a PCA church. I would feel completely muzzled and boxed-in. We go to an egalitarian church now for the first time, and it’s amazing how much more respected I feel simply because there are female elders and women being an active part of the worship service on a weekly basis. (leading music, serving communion, and occasionally preaching) It really does make a difference.
May 20th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
I don’t frequent your blog. I only put it on my feed 3 or 4 posts ago. I’ve not commented before, I just know you a bit from MbG. But I had to comment tonight.
I was just–and by just I mean, I was talking to my husband downstairs, came up the stairs, turned on the computer, and saw this post–talking to my husband, wrestling for the thousandth time in the last ten years over my call to ordained ministry. I’ve read the opposing verses, I’ve struggled, I go back and forth, it doesn’t feel cut and dried. Still, my husband encourages me forward on the path. My gifts for teaching and preaching before women *and men* in the church have been confirmed. I continue to hesitate, to resist, and God continues to propel me forward.
So, there we were. Husband was describing a presbytery meeting where some discouraging things took place, and once again I began to question my call to ordination. *Any* woman’s call to ordination. And then I read your post. And it gives me more to ponder in my heart. There is more at stake than who gets to lead what. Women’s very identity in Christ, as children of God in their own right, is at stake here. I dare to say that might be as big as the very gospel itself.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:48 am
I haven’t dealt with those things in the PCA churches we’ve been members of. In the last one, one of our elders was an egalitarian, and our pastor a complementarian, and they ministered together quite nicely. Our pastor visited me in the hospital when I had PPD, and continues to counsel me. Women did lots of things there, and not just behind-the-scenes or with kids and other women. Just not elders or pastors.
However, I recognize that there are broad swathes of the PCA that do express their patriarchy in the ways you’ve described. And so, I understand your desire / decision to move on.
Are you considering the EPC? I think they either ordain women or allow individual congregations to decide the issue for themselves, right? Or are you looking outside Presbyterianism?
May 25th, 2009 at 9:17 am
I know you’ve been struggling for a long time with this and related things. . . And, honestly, because our “home” is in the PCA, I want to say, “Hey, it’s not all like that!” But I know that you know that. . . and I know that isn’t really needed.
I know our Lord has you and your family in His hands, and I pray that this journey of struggle will soon come to a place of rest and comfort in your worship. That sounds all mushy, but I really mean it. . . it’s only been in the last year that we’ve had “comfort” in worship, after a time of disjointedness and difficulty. And it is hard to express how much my soul needed (needs) that right now.
May 26th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Leaving is never easy - no one who is not in your shoes will ever fully understand your reasons, and many will see it as a personal attack on them rather than an honest desire to find a place that is truly a good fit for your family and your beliefs.
As a single, professional woman who is used to dealing in the business world, I find it incredibly frustrating that some denominations - and many independent Bible churches - essentially preach that women are inferior. While I think God needed to put someone in charge and chose men, it certainly didn’t mean women were useless or meant to be relegated to only certain corners of church life. I’m not comfortable with either a female pastor or elders, but those men who are called and appointed had darn well better be willing to listen to, and when appropriate follow the counsel of the female portion of their congregation.
I will certainly pray for your family and this transition - God has a perfect place picked out for you and will guide you to it in His time.
May 27th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Ahhh… It is so hard. It is just so hard.
((((hugs))))
June 2nd, 2009 at 11:29 am
Dear Chewymom–I wouldn’t make such a categorical move ‘out of the PCA’ when there are probably a lot of PCA churches that you wouldn’t feel are patriarchal. If you can’t find a PCA congregation in your area that you can attend in good conscience, that is one thing. But perhaps you shouldn’t generalize what you are feeling to the whole denomination.
June 3rd, 2009 at 9:05 pm
This is why you need to blog more, you have so much to say and such a great way of saying it. I miss you! Love you and am very proud of you!
June 6th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Tim,
Thank you for your comment. I wanted to clarify that I am not basing my decision to leave the PCA on my feelings over one incident. (And also that the decision to move our family of seven to another church is not just mine–my husband has been bothered by this issue longer than I have.) My husband and I have been in the PCA for 18 years, and our experience covers membership in 5 churches in 4 cities/states, in addition to 3 years of seminary after which many of the men went on to pastor PCA churches. Although I used this one incident as a catalyst for my post, and it did seem to sum up my experiences, it is unfortunately not unusual.
The problem is systemic. Your own church has deaconesses, and yet the denomination refused to even form a committee to study the issue at last year’s GA. I would love to think that the PCA is willing to look at the unhealthy way their theology of women plays out in the majority of churches, but I do not see any movement in that direction.
If I ever found myself living in NYC, I would gladly visit your church, but it would be because I believe your church is the exception in terms of the way women are viewed and treated, rather than the rule.
June 6th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
With due respect to Tim, whose opinions I usually respect, I think that thinking about it as if it were a racial issue is helpful (though painful).
To me, Tim, it felt like you said something akin to, “Not all our group’s churches discriminate against blacks, so please be more careful not to say that they do.”
How much more constructive to say something along the lines of, “We are horrified that SOME of our churches do this. I’m so sorry for your pain. Thankfully, this is not true of ALL of our demonination.”
June 8th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
June 8th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
I just found your blog through the Facebook Ds blog group. I’ve only read your two most recent posts, but want to say Good. For. You! Keep (or start) searching for an inclusive and welcoming Christian community. There are many out there where you ALL will feel at home. I second Molly’s suggestion of replacing “women” with “racially different” or “disabled” and see how that fares with the wider community.
Also, I have a dear friend who has Ehlers-Danlos syndrome too!
I look forward to learning more about your family through your blog.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Thanks for a thoughtful post and to get a comment from Tim Keller is VERY impressive. Our lives follow a similar trajectory as my husband is a graduate of RTS-Jackson many moons ago. Without boring you with all the details, we left the PCA a few years ago over many issues and the treatment of women was one of them.
Our church at that time had women serving as deacons but in order to appear to be in agreement with the Book of Church Order, they stopped short of ordaining the women for this ministry. So they called them deacons, they performed the role of deacons but did not get the official secret handshake or decoder ring in an effort to be in compliance with PCA doctrine. As a female church member and a former staff member of a different PCA church, this was highly insulting.
The inability of the PCA to even convene a study on the role of women in the church continues to be a disappointment. The recent vote by the Overtures Committee confirms to me that our decision to leave was the correct decision. I have a very full plate working in the cancer community and volunteering in our public schools in addition to being a wife and mom and did not see myself in a leadership role in the church. I just objected to the church telling me I was not worthy of doing certain things because of my gender.
I hope you and ChewyDad find some peace with your decision. We agonized over it for months but have never felt like we made the decision for the wrong reasons. (BTW, we are good Atlanta friends of Steve and Jean.) Thanks for having a respectful and honest debate on a topic that deserves it.
June 17th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
The woman at the well comes to mind. Jesus talked to her when their society forbade it. Not only was she a Samaritan, but she was a woman.
I pray your family finds the place God wants you to be at.
June 18th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
We are also PCA, and I know exactly how you feel. I’ve seen all the things you have seen, felt all the things you feel, and as an egalitarian … we’ve actually chosen to stay for the time being. However, my gifts are not used in the (local PCA) church, because they seem to have no use for them coming from a female. They have chosen to be handicapped by tying one hand of the Body behind its back. Fortunately, in God’s great economy, nothing goes to waste, and I serve elsewhere where my gifts are appreciated without respect to gender. We’ve chosen to stay because despite the position on women, it is for the most part a loving, gracious church. My pastor is somewhat emergent (no doubt Tim Bayly would be frothing at the mouth if he heard him talk about “The Shack”) and that gives me hope that God may do a work in the hearts of the leadership at my church.
@Tim Keller: I must echo Chewymom’s comments. The problem IS systemic. Progressive churches like yours are an encouragement, and I, too, wouldn’t hesitate to worship at your church, but then all your good work is undone by the PCA’s embarrassment of the likes of Tim and David Bayly.
When our children are grown a few short years from now and we move away from this area, we will not be seeking a PCA church. And I am deeply saddened by that.
June 27th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Hey Aunt Chewymom
I totally see what you’re saying. It’s one of those subjects that are important but nobody wants to hear about.. I guess you could call it taboo. I’ve had struggles before with my church but instead of it being women it’s youth. I feel like so often opinions, frustrations, and personal convictions of our youth were overlooked just because we are under 18.
But I’m off subject. I was going to suggest a book to you. I’m currently reading this book called Captivating By John and Stasi Eldridge. It’s been life-changing. I read a chapter today that just made me burst into tears. God is really teaching me a lot about myslef as a woman. You should really check it out!
August 25th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I’m ashamed to say I haven’t been reading blogs this summer. My husband read this one and we are both boiling! I am gauled by the whole situation. But I’m not surprised that whichever man it was, didn’t address you. We have been out of that church for several years and will never go back. I have never felt so small and belittled as I did there. We don’t attend church right now. My husband and I pray at home and have our own “church”. I am so glad you left. Jana B.
September 21st, 2009 at 8:52 am
Where have you gone, Chewymom? As a mother to a special needs child, I love your insight (and the honest hope) that it brings to me as I brave raising my daughter in an often-painful world.
I miss your posts.