Recent Comment on Old Post
I received a comment the other day on a post about the Bayly brothers that was from way back in September about the Bayly brothers and their ill treatment of women. I decided to post it below because first, I didn’t want it to get lost in the shuffle, because I think she is addressing some of us (Light, Corrie, etc.) specifically. Second…ummm…I don’t even understand it. Anyone want to take a stab at explaining what Donna Carlaw is getting at?
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Donna L. Carlaw Says:
February 13th, 2007
Girls, are you ready to show me love? That would be nice. Set the example of how Christians are supposed to act.
What’s that Scripture about beams and moats? You take my beams out and then you can deal with your little, itty bitty specks? How does that go?
Somehow you have a hard time convincing me that you are innocent victims of male oppression. I certainly don’t see what you see, but then I have those huge beams in my eye…or is it because of my black eyes from encounters with you dearies?
At least you feel a certain kinship…that’s nice…it’s nice to think alike…
Yes, this is from quite awhile ago. I’m behind on my reading…
…somehow I know that I will regret this, …
Do you ladies know what a Drama Queen is? …or a martyr complex?
February 15th, 2007 at 8:48 am
Nope. It is crazy monkey talk. I have tried to figure it out, I really have but to no avail. I think she is talking to herself. She is a very dramatic person with a matyr complex.
February 15th, 2007 at 9:01 am
Honestly, though, anyone reading through the Bayly’s blog and defends how they have treated Light and anyone who disagrees with their extremely hyper-patriarchal teachings is not someone I can trust nor someone I want to associate with. Donna is a missionary and she should know better. If she can’t read the Bayly’s blog and see how unChristlike they are and how they treat others with hateful scorn and contempt, then I think we have our answer. Donna claims to be a victim of “black eyes” from her encounters with people like us. I would like her to show us just ONE example of where she has been attacked. I can find plenty of examples of where she has attacked others.
February 15th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
“Do you ladies know what a Drama Queen is? …or a martyr complex?”
Well, I would say that someone resurrecting a 6-month old post just to stir the pot would could be considered a Drama Queen. Someone who claims not to be feelin’ the love, and who is sure she will regret it … definitely martyr complex.
Donna, you are my sister in Christ and I say this to you in love. I’ve seen your posts around the blogosphere and what I have observed concerns me greatly. Sometimes your posts are filled with such self-loathing that it breaks my heart. I can tell that your heart is greatly troubled. Please love yourself as Jesus loves you, and consider reaching out to get some help.
God bless,
Light
February 15th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
I do and don’t understand Donna’s comment. I don’t understand it being posted there, as it wasn’t related to Chewymom’s original post.
Tim Bayly treated Light in a disgusting fashion, then called Corrie a dishonest feminist, after Corrie SAID she was a complementarian, and tried to defend some of what Light said that she did agree with, and then he gave Corrie the boot off his blog. Meanwhile, another man on that blog noted Tim’s behavior and said he could answer Light’s points without the name calling. I read Corrie’s comments at the time and saw nothing deserving of that kind of treatment, but it’s Tim Bayly’s blog. He can do what he wants.
AFTER kicking her IP off his blog, we were treated to a post about how judicious the Baylys are when dealing with people, how they work things out off-line, even to the point of phone calling the principals. But nothing like that was done with Corrie.
Meanwhile, Corrie and her husband found out he KNEW the Baylys from high school years, and FOR FIVE DAYS, their e-mails and phone calls to the Baylys were IGNORED, until FINALLY Tim called Corrie’s husband back. And I was posting fast and furious during that time on my blog, just to make known the hypocrisy.
The rudeness and public hypocrisy of Tim Bayly is what I dealt with on my blog, for several posts.
You also posted on this way back then, and what you said has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the conflict Donna is referring to. So that is why I don’t understand it.
But I have been on all the boards where the conflict started, so I have seen the conflict and understand what she is talking about, even though I strongly disagree with her accusations and her way of dealing with this situation. I will be in prayer for all involved.
February 15th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Just fyi, since you asked, the boards this started on would include Yahoo e-mail boards: The Gothard_discussion list, ChristianWomensIssues, the complementarian-egalitarian dialogue, and the CCC-forum. Corrie and I were kicked off the CCC-forum. What evil I did to be kicked off, I still don’t know. One of the moderators of that board said he thought I was being unfairly pidgeonholed by the list owner of that board, so perhaps that is true. But unlike Donna, I have absolutely NO desire to try to make up to that board. They wanted me gone, and I could care less.
But all that to say the CCC-forum is where Donna has continued to post a lot, and still does.
February 16th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
ouch…this makes my head hurt (as does yours, I see).
I visited the Bayly Blog. He grates on me. Not my cup of tea. God is a balance of truth, grace, love and mercy and all I see is contempt for women and much pride in his writing. yikes.
RUN AWAY!! You are good to not go back. Read your Bible. Pray. Pray for him, even. God speaks best. :o)
February 19th, 2007 at 2:52 am
Hmmm. Maybe you could ask me?
I think that there are a couple of women who responded to this who are pretty familiar with what I am talking about.
Now I’m being called a monkey? Why doesn’t that surprise me.
I’ve been called worse.
Self-loathing, Light? You feel sorry for me? I guess that’s better than being called a monkey. At least you call me a sister.
My point is that maybe you have been offended, but you have also offended. That’s all.
Don’t mind my sub-human monkey talk.
I think that emmasometimes gives great advice. Actually, I don’t agree that those guys are extremists, but if you believe that they are out of balance and wrong, then what she suggests is the best way to deal with it.
BTW, how do you ladies know that I continue to post at the CCC list? Are you monitoring me? Are you stalking me?
It’s a free country, last I checked. You are free to read what I write, and have your opinions about it.
I HOPE that I am able to resist making a comment next time. Continue to enjoy my posts wherever you may find them. Come by my blog if you would like to read more monkey talk. Hey, I like that. I may use it.
February 19th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
…and of course I can’t provide evidence of how I have been attacked visciously by the very women who are attacking me right now on your blog…
I don’t keep hate mail.
HEY! Now that I think of it, these very comments are contain some pretty good evidence.
Chewymom, are you sure that you support gossip, slander, and character assination as these women do?
February 19th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
“BTW, how do you ladies know that I continue to post at the CCC list? Are you monitoring me? Are you stalking me?”
The ladies would know you post there because I told them you do. You might just as well have said, “Lynn, how do you know that I continue to post . . . .”
I stopped reading that list, until someone alerted me, several months ago, to how people like LaurieEllen (mrsmacaddict) were being mocked, mischaracterized, and kicked out of the group.
At that time, I started to periodically read the posts Laurie Ellen was writing and saw nothing in her writing to make them treat her the way she was treated. As he was giving her the boot of the forum Mike McMillan said she would doubtless “lodge a fresh wave of slander” on the egalitarian boards. Problem was, Laurie Ellen is complementarian. TL said she doesn’t post to the egalitarian boards.
So . . . I periodically read the CCC forum since that time, and that is how I know you still post there. It’s a public forum.
That board is way too much of a rant against feminism and I come away with the feeling that feminism is the root of all evil in the world. This is way too much of a broad brush attack.
I agree with the Baylys on a lot of issues, except in practically every comment section I read, when someone asks a question or raises a point in disagreement, I see main response to such comments is maligning and character put-downs. I’ve seen it happen to Brian, Corrie, Light, and now Rebecca, and someone named Pat in a recent thread.
It is my firm conviction that the way they talk to people is opposed to what the Bible says an elder’s deportment should be. Because of thie, even when I find I agree with them they grate on me because of their treatment of other people.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
You know what? When you go to the Bayly blog, you go as visitors. If you go there, and don’t like what is said or their reactions to you, there is an easy way out. Don’t go over there! You’re nuts if you do!
I have seen how some of you people treat others when you are in power.
I have seen how you have treated me on my own blog. You are not innocent victims of anyone!
If you really want to do some good and take the moral high ground, then stop slandering others. It is so obvious what you are doing. You are so transparent it’s not funny.
I have been on the feminist boards. I have received a lot of hate mail from the egalitarians. I have seen what has been said about me.
I’ve seen it from both sides, and it is not pretty and you are not fooling anyone but yourselves. In fact, the first things I heard about the CCC group were gossip and slander about how evil these men were and how bad they treated their wives!
If you oppose slander, then stop it yourselves.
I will be around to remind you of the specks in your own eyes. It’s not as if we don’t know each other pretty well, girls. Who are we kidding? Let’s cut the crap. Honestly! None of us are very good victims. We are all too spunky and opinionated.
Brian, Corrie, Light, and Rebecca are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves - and dishing it out when they feel a surge or righteous indignation.
Mrs. Monkey Talk - the human not quite human one - signing off for now.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Look, Lynn, you throw up in my face all my past. You failed to mention the fact that last summer I spent a couple of weeks trying my best - which granted, was not good enough - to bring about some resolution?, understanding? Anytying positive? I have tried for years to be at peace with you. I have tried my hardest to understand what you are saying. I have apologized to you publically on more than one occasion, since you told me you were offended. I ate lots and lots of crow.
Anyway, last summer I was treated to not just five or six emails, but dozens of mean-sprited comments and accusations. I didn’t even know most of the people who were trashing me. Most of them were posting anonymously anyway. I wanted to see how far you folks would go, and let me tell you. It’s not pretty. Light, weren’t you involved in that blood bath?
What do you want from me? Lynn, you stood by and watched, and even participated to some extent.
In fact, I still have people coming around to monitor me. That’s fine. They are welcome. However, maybe you need to do some self-examination, too? I have never seen that from any on your side. You are good at these kinds of search and destroy missions. You are not good at showing Christian love, forgiveness, and YES, grace.
If you are on the right side, the grace side, shouldn’t there be more love coming from you? If you pretend to be leaders yourselves, then how can you justify the treatment that I have received from some of you on my own blog, on the telephone , in many, many emails, in your discussion groups, on the CCC list, and right here on this very blog.
It’s amazing to me to see how rightously indignant you all can get without ever even thinking that maybe, just maybe you go too far.
You like to force others to grovel. Well, I have groveled. I have begged forgiveness. I have confessed my sins to you, and to others publically. I have wept. I think that Light calls that self-loathing.
What more do you want?
I can see my logs. I can see your specks. They are all very visible. I can’t help but notice and comment on it.
Why not try to reconcile instead? Why not try Christian kindness? Why not try some good old fashioned letting go? Why not stay away from those blogs and groups that make you so indignant?
Don’t you all have any like-minded people to talk to?
Sorry about this Cheweymom, but it seems that you are in agreement with all this.
It’s your blog. Thank you for at least letting me post.
Mrs. Monkey Talk, the human almost human,
Donna L. Carlaw
February 20th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
“You know what? When you go to the Bayly blog, you go as visitors. If you go there, and don’t like what is said or their reactions to you, there is an easy way out. Don’t go over there! You’re nuts if you do!”
I can read it if I want to and comment on it if I want to, whether I like it or not.
Regarding your blogs, and what went on there, you were the one who said “you are of your father, the devil.”
I don’t blame people for reacting to that. Sorry, but . . . there it is.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
LOL. Lynn, of course you can go there. You are not nuts for going there. You are nuts if you go there, hate what is said, and then go off to complain about it - or make silly comments about women being forced to just stand there while their husbands hold the hymnal for them. I wasn’t talking to you directly, Lynn. In fact, your writing is pretty substantive. You are not one of those silly women.
Honestly! If that blog is so offensive to some, as it seems to be, just stay away, or do like emmasometimes does. She stays away, yet prays for those guys. That is a decidedly Christian response.
Besides, on my blog, I said those words:
1. In anger
2. I apologized for them, and admitted that I was wrong in saying that.
3. I took those blogs down and started over. Unless you saved those words, they are no longer anywhere that I know of. If you love grace, then you will see that they have been washed away in the blood of Christ. Don’t you ever say things that you wish you hadn’t? don’t you ever have to apologize? Don’t you ever cast yourself on God’s mercy? Don’t you ever hope that people will show you just a wee bit of grace? Maybe you have been perfected, while I am still down here in a pre-human, missionary monkey state, filled with self-loathing.
4. That was said after I had already been asaulted for several days. There was a context to that, you know. I didn’t just up and say “you are of your father the devil.” In fact, if I remember right, whoever was pummeling me at that moment was doing it anonymously. I preferred it that way. That way I wouldn’t know who was pounding on me, telling me to repent and all that. It seemed pretty mean to me, but then I guess such a crazy monkey as myself deserves any and all beating?
No, I didn’t blame anyone for reacting to those words I said - not then, and not now.
Now, what else do you have against me.
Mrs. Crazy Monkey
February 20th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Donna, if you want to contact me privately, you have my e-mail address, I’m sure. Feel free. I don’t have anything against you.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:22 am
Donna, The only two things I’ll point out here are that 1-you posted an odd comment on a months-old post of mine, so I don’t understand your accusation of others following you around the blog world. It seems you followed them…somehow. Second, I definitely don’t understand your comment to me, “Sorry about this Cheweymom, but it seems that you are in agreement with all this.” I think you are dragging me into some of your own personal issues, because once again I have no clue what you are talking about.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:06 am
Okay, I think it’s time to turn off the comments on this post. Donna, I hope you can resolve (biblically) some of the issues you seem to be having with these women, but you’ll need to seek them out elsewhere. I also deleted your post which was nothing more than a link to your blog, as I don’t think that was an appropriate use of my comment feature.